Friday, October 1, 2010

RE: Ashley (SB-1070), A comment left on my blog from 8/16/2010 w/Response

Folk's, I normally do not rehash past blogs at length but this was too good to pass up.

Just yesterday (9/30/2010) a person going by the name of Ashley left a comment on a post I did as indicated on 8/16/2010.

I will repeat the pertinent parts of that particular post as I am sure these are what caught this liberals attention and to also connect the two (my post & her comment) on the same page,,,,,,,





Now here is 'Ashleys' comment in full with no editing,,,,,,


The law does encourage racial profiling. Anyone who hasn't read it needs to before they make an argument. Simply saying "reasonable suspicion" does not account for the means by which to detain these persons. After all, how does one ascertain legal status? They must begin with their appearance of ethnicity. A direct violation of the fourth amendment. A person appearing to be of caucasian background would not be suspected, but someone of hispanic background would. And then I hear arguments of "well they should have their paperwork if they're going to be here!" I'm sure everyone here has forgotten their wallet at least once in their life. But I don't see citizens being taken from their vehicles and toted off to jail because they forgot their wallet when they got pulled over. Illegal immigration is a problem, but I dare say racism is a far bigger one. Don't believe me? Look at pro-SB 1070 sentiments on Facebook. Many of your fellow conservatives state "Anyone who doesn't speak English should get the **** out of our country!" Among other racist and hateful comments, this made me want to leave this country. I have friends that are near and dear to me. My host sister in Japan barely speaks English, but is a sweet and kind person, truly like a real sister to me. To think that if she came to visit here that she would be treated in such a disgusting manner goes beyond just making me sick. I have no good words to describe my feelings other than utter shame to be associated with such people. America is a melting pot of people and their culture. It was built on the backs of all races and by the sacrifices of all races. Without the people of the world, our country would not exist.

Ashley, as I indicated to you where you commented, I will reply here.

Now follow along if you can, your words will be repeated yet again in the color blue and my words in response in the color red as there is much to disect and cover due to the length and content of your comment.

Here we go,,,,,,,

Ashley: The law does encourage racial profiling. Anyone who hasn't read it needs to before they make an argument.

CP: Ashley, millions including myself have indeed read the law and it is quite simple really, there is NO encouragement of anything let alone racial profiling, even if a person is illegal (which is a crime, look up the law if you wish to make an argument), if they are not committing any crime or against any other enforceable law then they have nothing to fear.

Ashley: Simply saying "reasonable suspicion" does not account for the means by which to detain these persons. After all, how does one ascertain legal status?

CP: This sentence presupposes that an individual has been stopped/detained by police in the act of an already enforceable law other than being illegal. Now when any of us legal or not are stopped by law enforcement we all have to show identification so this is not out of order. By the by any adult 18 years of age and older is REQUIRED to carry picture identification. Now, any foreigner in our country must carry their entry papers/status and present them forthwith upon request from law enforcement.

Now when taking those two facts into account which are both laws on the books already across the Nation, if any of us does not present the proper identification we are all immediately under "reasonable suspicion". You may ask; well how does a drivers license prove citizenship? All pertinent info is embedded into the license which can be quickly retrieved via computer in a patrol vehicle.

Bottom line legal or not; If the officer(s) cannot verify any of us on the scene, well we get detained for further investigation as to just who the hell we are, and that is how legal status is ascertained

Ashley: They must begin with their appearance of ethnicity.

CP: Wrong, they must begin by making a traffic stop on a traffic infraction or responding to a call about a possible crime in progress or alike period, then the process begins (see above).

Ashley: A direct violation of the fourth amendment.

CP: Wrong again, lets review the 4th Amendment shall we,,,

Amendment 4 - Search and Seizure. Ratified 12/15/1791.



The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

1) This pertains to LEGAL citizens of the United States of America i.e. 'people' meaning We the People

2) I already covered that there is nothing 'unreasonable' in sb1070 in that it conforms to existing laws on the books.

3) sb1070 is all about probable cause.


Ashley: A person appearing to be of caucasian background would not be suspected, but someone of hispanic background would.

CP: It matters not the 'appearence' of anyone, if you run a stoplight you will be pulled over by police even if you were transparent like Casper the Friendly Ghost, what part of this do you not understand?

Ashley: And then I hear arguments of "well they should have their paperwork if they're going to be here!"

CP: As I said before, THAT IS THE LAW ALREADY!

Ashley: I'm sure everyone here has forgotten their wallet at least once in their life. But I don't see citizens being taken from their vehicles and toted off to jail because they forgot their wallet when they got pulled over.

CP: Well then you lead a very sheltered life. I have seen that only once (not being hauled down) due to the fact my friend had much business paperwork in his name in his vehicle with the fact I could vouch for him and they took down my info for this reason. I believe had I not been there I or his wife would have had to bring his licence down to the police station to meet up with him. (p.s., He was pulled over for speeding)

Ashley: Illegal immigration is a problem, but I dare say racism is a far bigger one. Don't believe me? Look at pro-SB 1070 sentiments on Facebook. Many of your fellow conservatives state "Anyone who doesn't speak English should get the **** out of our country!" Among other racist and hateful comments, this made me want to leave this country.

CP: You indeed live a sheltered life if you hang-out on Facebook. I take it you graduated from MySpace? I do not know of the people you speak as I do not use that medium and there is no possible way to tell if a person is conservative or liberal or flat out just trying to stir the pot.

That said, by requiring people who enter legally into the U.S. seeking citizenship to speak English is not racist. I work with many naturalized citizens ALL of whom speak English. And no, they did not come from an English-speaking nation. As a matter of fact, all who arrived on our shores before us made it their own requirement to speak our language so as to assimilate and to advance in their obvious quest of the American dream.

Your thought there in mentioning racism as it pertains to the spoken word leads me to believe you are the racist in that hold English-speaking peoples in contempt. Now if that sounds a little crazy, well now you know how you sound, crazy.

Ashley: I have friends that are near and dear to me. My host sister in Japan barely speaks English, but is a sweet and kind person, truly like a real sister to me. To think that if she came to visit here that she would be treated in such a disgusting manner goes beyond just making me sick.

CP: This begs a question or two; You say 'host sister' in Japan, which sounds very cool being it suggests you had a stay there in Japan, but must ask; Do you speak Japanese? If the answer is 'yes', well now you should understand. On the other hand if the answer is 'no', one has to ask; Why not? As they say; "When in Rome, do as the Romans do".

I notice you use the term 'visit' when speaking of your friend coming here, you seem to confuse that with ILLEGAL ENTRY. It also implies that all these illegals are just 'visiting', if that were the case there would not be a problem to begin with as you yourself admitted it is. And if they were just 'visiting' there are well established border-crossing points with which to achieve that.

No, illegals climbing over a fence, digging tunnels, ransacking ranchers and drug cartels are not just "visiting", they mean to stay.

Ashley: I have no good words to describe my feelings other than utter shame to be associated with such people.

CP: Well with that sentiment, you and Hussein are in good company together as neither one of you respects our founding, our history and our people and I hold nothing but disdain for both of you and your ilk.

Ashley: America is a melting pot of people and their culture. It was built on the backs of all races and by the sacrifices of all races. Without the people of the world, our country would not exist.

CP: No shit Sherlock, and they all came here legally and learned English.

32 comments:

Anonymous said...

Ashley's view of things doesn't allow for the assimilation into society by immigrants that created this vast "melting pot" in the first place, but rather fosters a divisive culture which continues to erode the principles, and moral fabric, of America.

Fredd said...

Ah, Christopher, Christopher, Christoper.....et tu?  First it is Silverfiddle, trolling on liberal sites begging for arguments with liberals in which he has no chance in hell of prevailing. Now you jump into an unwinnable battle.

I read the red and blue 'conversation' above, and of course I agree with your (and Gov. Jan Brewer's) argument.  Ashley, on the other hand, chooses to blindly ignore the plain English of the bill, and rail against us racists that bring shame upon her in her obviously racsist country, a country of which she is tempted to leave in protest.

Will your argument win Ashley over?  Never.  Not in a million years, even though all of your positions on the issue are legally correct, and logically presented.  That will never matter to liberals such as Ashley.  Her heart and mind will not be swayed by logic.  She only knows that humans should love each other, and that all else does not matter.  Liberals do not concern themselves with what they consider mean spirited and racist ideas such as sovereignty, borders, rule of law, all of that gobbledegook.

Squabbling with liberals is like arguing with the Wolfman:

Christoper: 'This law is not racist.'
Ashley: ' Growwwwlllll.'
Christopher: 'Excuse me?'
Ashley: 'You heard me correctly. I said, "Growwwwllll."'

I've used that analogy on a post at Western Hero as well, but my point simply cannot be disputed.  There is no use in squabbling with liberals.  Nobody's mind will be changed, must to the conservative's frustration, since they use logic, and not emotion. 

This post was certainly interesting to read, however.  I thoroughly enjoyed seeing in plain English my point proven beyond a shadow of a doubt.

Opus #6 said...

Christopher, this is a troll dissection worthy of Hillbuzz. Bravo.

Christopher said...

Fredd my good friend, I understand where exactly you are coming from but I believe you misinterpet my words.

I did not go trolling as I agree it is fruitless, she entered our realm. 

This is not an arguement but a response, no matter the commenter, they derserve as much.

'Ashley' is a perfect example of a liberal who attempts logic but fails, she attempts using her"vast knowledge of the constitution (not unlike Hussein) and fails, she attempts the favorite liberal tact of appealing to emotion which has no place in law, she wishes to throw in her extensive wordly view as an ambassador of the U.S. which is ridiculous on it's face and of course she throws out the racist card as though that is the end-all-be-all.

I have no intension of pursuing this conversation with Ashley any further, I just thought it constructive for us and her i.e.; see the fav liberal tacts all in one shot and for her to swallow a reasoned response.

I did see your comments to Silver and again agree, but must repeat, this is but a response.

Finally I am glad you enjoyed reading as that was my intent! :)

Christopher said...

Exctly Guest,

Christopher said...

Well thank you Opie,

When this comment popped-up I started to laugh and thought to leavt it alone as Fredd suggested but then seeing all the lib tacts in one place I thought it deserved a response in a prominent place.

innominatus said...

I admire your patience.  I'm pretty sure I would have just said bad things about Ashley's mother and left it at that. :-D

Christopher said...

LOL Inno :-D

Patnience though? Not really, I wished to show reason based in existing law as opposed to faux logic. As for the little screed of racism that the left has worn out, it does not bother me a I know I am not one.

I am guessing Ashley is about 22 years of age , either in or just out of college with no real-world expirience beside her stated claim of visiting Japan where she could barely communicate with anyone if at all. I would venture to say she will not even vote as that would interupt some scoialist event she has planned.

Fredd said...

I think we agree on this one, Christoper, as I too want to set things straight when liberals use tortured logic, false arguments, straw men, red herrings, and on and on, in trying to make a conservative position look racist, mean, stupid, evil, etc.  Still, we handle it differently.  You are more patient than I am, Christopher.  In my younger days, I would get invovled, argue and get frustrated at the gibberish I had to wade through to make a point, and would in the end never succeed in doing anything except making the liberal mad as hell.  No minds were changed, no positions clarified.  Zip, zero nada accomplished.

My favorite analogy of this situation is 'poking sticks at barking dogs.'  It goes something like this, forgive me if you've read this before from me, I have told it many times.

When I was in 7th or 8th grade in Eugene Oregon in the late 60's, I would walk to school, perhaps a mile or so.  Enroute, there was a fenced yard I passed on the sidewalk, and each and every day this dog would race towards me, and bark like crazy through the fence.  One day, I grabbed a stick in anticipation of the dog doing his thing, and indeed when I got there, the damn dog barked at me like crazy as I passed. On this day, I decided that if I jabbed him through the fence with my stick, the dog would shut up.  That's not what happened.  The dog barked even wilder and louder.  Of course, I jabbed the dog with ever more vigour, seein's as it seemed like the right thing to do at the time.  And the dog went even crazier, if that was possible.  And I jabbed at it even harder, and so on....

The moral of the story: just leave the damn dog alone. 

True story.

In the instance of Ashley's comment, I would have read it, and deleted it, and nobody except me would have been the wiser.  Well, me and Ashley when she saw that it didn't get published.  If she gave a damn about following it up, which she probably didn't.  I am guessing she is clueless as to your rebuttal here.  But hey, I've been wrong before.

I still enjoyed reading the post, however.  It's comforting to know that I have conservative bretheren willing to fight the good fight, even though I know it will come to no good in this instance. 

Christopher said...

Fredd,

We do indeed agree but like a fire-fight, if one is shooting they had better be prepared to be shot at, this is our soapbox and I reserve the right the fire back at will and as I stated this is the end of the conversation with "Ashely".

George Van Inwagen said...

<span><span><span>Ashley:</span> I'm sure everyone here has forgotten their wallet at least once in their life. But I don't see citizens being taken from their vehicles and toted off to jail because they forgot their wallet when they got pulled over.</span></span>
If this were true EVERY thief, criminal, gang banger, rapist, murder, escaped convict, runaway, prostitute, robber, and drug dealer would escape by not carrying their ID. In Ashley's version of life we would not look for Osama Bin Laden in a Arab country untill every synagogue in Tijuana was checked. I think Ashley would be quick to point out that there is no proof that he is not in a Tijuana synagogue. Also in the spirit of no profiles she would check an equal number of women.

George Van Inwagen said...

For those wondering, <span>I am very pleased to report that Cindy's surgery was performed Wednesday and she is doing Great! Her doctor found that the heel injury was not as bad as he at first thought and the procedure went better than expected. The rough part of her heel was smoothed out and the tendon attached. Two weeks off her f<span>eet will drive her crazy. Thank you for all the kind thoughts and prayers as I know they helped.</span></span>

George Van Inwagen said...

Hey Ashley, Bad news they found Osama in the midwest but he got away! Police observed him at work but he had no ID. Lucky for hin he forgot his name tag too!  :'(

Christopher said...

Excellent news George and thanks for the update!!!!!!!!!!!!! :) :) :) :)

Christopher said...

Closer analogy than is comfortable George but drives home the point.

Christopher said...

In Ashleys world you cannot make a distinction between male and female as that is profiling, it's all just colorless and genderless innocent bystanders.

Christopher said...


CP Readers, I beg your induldgence to submit a comment on behalf of my good friend and co-worker Brian, this is worth a read,,,,,,




<span>Ashley, </span>
<span> </span>
<span><span>Aren’t you profiling here?</span></span><span></span>
<span><span>“Look at pro-SB 1070 sentiments on <span>Facebook</span>. </span></span><span><span><span>Many of your fellow conservatives</span></span></span><span><span> state "Anyone who doesn't speak English should get the **** out of our country!"</span></span>
<span>People who talk like this are not my “fellow conservatives” yet you display a bigoted attitude when you lump all of us into the same group.</span>
<span> </span>
<span>Michigan law requires people carry identification, if you leave your house without it you’re in violation of state law and subject to arrest. If the police stop someone for an alleged crime and <span>don’t</span> ask for identification <span>because of</span> the persons racial appearance isn’t that <span>racial profiling</span>?</span>
<span> </span>
<span>In Detroit they are arguing that the city police should reside within the city so they know and understand what the people living there are going through. If a young black male is arrested for a crime should he be treated differently because of where he lives and the fact that he’s black? Let’s take color out of the equation. Should anyone being guilty or suspect in a crime be treated differently because of where they live or their station in life? </span>
<span> </span>
<span>Concerning the problem of ILLEGALS.</span>
<span> </span>
<span>Have you opened your home to any of these poor disparaged people? Probably not yet you expect the good people of <span>Arizona</span> to accept this intrusion into their community and be tolerant of people who show neither tolerance or a willingness to assimilate in a legal manner as required by law while at the same time anyone going to their country would be imprisoned for the same thing.</span>
<span> </span>
<span>This argument has gone from seeking equal rights to demanding special rights.</span>
<span> </span>
<span>One last argument. You answer your door late one night and the last thing you see is a huge right fist from a large Hispanic male before you are knocked unconscious. The next morning you wake up in a puddle of blood with semen around your genitals. You clearly remember seeing the man’s face, how would you describe your attacker to the police? Sometimes racial profiling is needed to make sure we apprehend the right suspect.</span>
<span> </span>
<span>Profiling happens every day all day and ranges from a simple description of someone to all out racism ,which I do not condone.</span>
<span> </span>
<span>What you stand behind and advocate is extremely [...]

Christopher said...

Well stated Brian and thank you!

The Reaganite Republican said...

Linked at Reaganite Republican....

http://reaganiterepublicanresistance.blogspot.com/2010/10/perusing-conservative-blogosphere.html

ap-dp.blogspot.com said...

Christopher, good job with your rebuttal!!
However you'll never change her mind. They a permanently stuck in (D). :-D

But of course the guidelines for law enforcement officers at the federal level is to use 'visual observation' as a means to raise suspicion and detain to check immigration status and the liberals in Washington have yet to change those guidelines the last 4 years.

Silverfiddle said...

You do get a gold star for patience, Christopher.

It is futile arguing with those brainwashed obamabots.

Christopher said...

Thanks RR :)

Christopher said...

Chris,

Glad you weighed in as I am aware of your expirience in Japan. I wish Ashley had expounded on that subject especially her knowledge of the Japanese language or lack thereof.

I believe it is the latter as she only spoke about her 'host sisters' lack of English.

Christopher said...

Mark,

Thank You.

I am aware that I will not change her mind but if she read's this, she will realize she will not change mine either or anyone else's for that matter.

Now there you go adding fuel to the fire by throwing out silly little FACTS. :)

Christopher said...

Silver,

Thanks for the gold star, it showed up right before my name! :)

Like I told Fredd, this is a one time response to this 'Ashley' so really it is not an arguement persey just a reasoned response to her comment and after all, she entered our realm, not vise/versa.

ap-dp.blogspot.com said...

Well you know me, I like to fuel the fire to the point when the liberals head explode.  ;)

George Van Inwagen said...

A Libs head exploded near me the other day. Don't worry I didn't get hit with anything! :-D

fyzycyst said...

CP, just to correct one thing...  There is NO requirement to produce picture ID upon request (unless, of course, you're driving).  About half the states have 'stop & identify' statutes that require a person to give their name to an officer, only if they are being detained.  If an officer questions you and you ask "Am I free to go?" and the answer is yes, you have no obligation to even state your name.  

Now, I'm of the mind that behaving this way is a real jacka$$ move, but nonetheless, that's the current state of the law.

Christopher said...

I know of the law and I do not care if you are crawling on the sidewalk, if you are stopped by police and you are 18 years of age or older it is the law you have legal indentification on your person as IT IS THE LAW.

Please, if you wish to refute this point then provide proof.

Bunni said...

Wow, you have some great patience refuting the troll!
Great work, Chris, like everyone said.  I missed this, worth the read.
Love all the comments too.

I take it the "ashley" has not show up since this smack down?

Christopher said...

Thanks Bunni! :)  And no, I have not seen a return of this commentor.

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